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提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况

2017 hit AMT, but 2018 not(恭喜你如果还hit,那你家百万不用看下去了),  去年州稅 state refund NOT taxable income!  不用算收入或者部分不用

一般来说往年你hit 会一直hit,   但是报2018 年税时,由于新税改,有个 AMT (带来的) credit 大家终于可以用上,是指你某年不hit  而之前有AMT(update: 或其他 recovery )会产生的 recovery credit    

考据黨和硬核人士請看 IRS 525 form 6251 和8801;  其他捷徑人士請看:


2018 报2017的税时hit AMT, 假如2017州税refund $5000, 然后按照下面这个方法,即可知道这5000是不是不用成为2018的taxable income:

  在你用的报税软件里,2017 w2的state tax withholding上试着一直(update: 是收入往上加,所以withholding 是减掉! )$4000之后重新计算使得2017

1040 line 47 变化$1, 那么当 2019报2018的税时, taxable 2017 state refund 其實只应该填

$1000 因為 $4000  是你去年帶來的credit


捷徑不求甚解大法

回到2017 報稅軟件,直接去改w2 的state tax withholding ,往下减掉 refund (收入增加 ),直到1040 line 47 变化$1 为止:

直接看1040 就可以了。不用看6251;直接看 1040 line 44, 45 47

你 减少 state withhold, line 44 增加line 45 减少,line 47 是和,所以不变。

直到line 47 变化,说明你amt 的credit 用完了。


實戰一粒:

原来1040:  tax  line44: 78,841     收入增加refund 的 3000 快:   79,804,

                   AMT line45: 6, 896           vs  5,906

    addlines  tax   line47: 85,710        vs  85,710

都不变, 所以state refund 3000块或者以下,都不要填进2018 你的taxable income 你的报税软件会提示你去算,但是不够智能⁉(贵!?)帮你算...



贴主 update :

作为一个完全没有税务知识的理工男, 贴主其实是不满于这个不求甚解法的, 那我又能怎样呢? 难道去看那个176 页的 IRS 525 不成?  吃饱了撑的嘛


--------强迫症分割线-------

IRS 525, Section Recoveries

Example 34.

In 2017, Jean Black filed as head of household and itemized her deductions on Schedule A (Form 1040). Her taxable income was $5,260 and her tax was $528. She claimed a child care credit of $1,200. The credit reduced her tax to zero and she had an unused tax credit of $672 ($1,200 − $528). In 2018, Jean recovered $1,000 of her itemized deductions. She reduces her 2017 itemized deductions by $1,000 and refigures that year's tax on taxable income of $6,260. However, the child care credit exceeds the refigured tax of $628. Jean's tax liability for 2017 isn't changed by reducing her deductions by the recovery. She didn't have a tax benefit from the recovered deduction and doesn't include any of the recovery in her income for 2018.


Subject to AMT.

If you were subject to the AMT in the year of the deduction, you'll have to refigure your tax for the earlier year to determine if the recovery must be included in your income. This will require a refiguring of your regular tax, as shown in Example 34 , and a refiguring of your AMT. If inclusion of the recovery doesn't change your total tax, you don't include the recovery in your income. However, if your total tax increases by any amount, you received a tax benefit from the deduction and you must include the recovery in your income up to the amount of the deduction that reduced your tax in the earlier year.



  以上让我重温GRE的魔幻时刻。。。  原来速成法其实就是正统法,  algorithm:
0.  you were subject to the AMT in the year of the deduction
    Yes
  1. you'll have to refigure your tax for the earlier year to determine if the recovery must be included in your income
      我理解这里的recovery  比如是我们想问州退税 should include or not, 比如3,000


2.  This will require a refiguring of your regular tax, as shown in Example 34 , and a refiguring of your AMT.
       Example 34 什么鬼!?  主要它提到的credit 等等scenario 爆了这么多年税从来没沾过光


3.  If inclusion of the recovery doesn't change your total tax, you don't include the recovery in your income.
      inclusion of the recovery:  把 state refund 重新加回去? 所以去改state withholding 是最好理解的, 就像例子She reduces her 2017 itemized deductions by $1,000 and refigures that year's tax on taxable income of $6,260. 【5260 + 1000】
    所以贴主 加了3000 (state withholding 减少3000)回去, 发现 还是 85,710


4.  However, if your total tax increases by any amount, you received a tax benefit from the deduction and you must include the recovery in your income up to the amount of the deduction that reduced your tax in the earlier year.    请试着一口气读下来
    however, 如果加进 state  withholding 2000快  line 47 变了一块, 那么 you must include 3000- 2000 =1000    


以上, 贴主尽力了, 吃饭去



update2: 看到有人(专业人士?)提到从源头上和8801预测,觉得是个好思路。  另请分清我们是在要income recovery from e.g. state refund  还是要 AMT incurred in prior tax years and to figure any credit carryforward to 2019

最后编辑avo 最后编辑于 2019-04-14 17:44:07
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2#

回复 1楼avo的帖子

不好意思寫到一半輸入法粗了問題, 簡體唔搭,只有粵語的work, sorry!
我每次想做點好事都會有奇怪的麻煩,可能不幫人是宇宙的常態吧
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3#

谢谢lz 只有2017 hit amt的才能省对吗

---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP


裳 发表于 4/13/2019 9:49:34 PM 提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-3楼

是的, 沒hit 的沒有這個陷阱;  被tax 人士稱為今年華人最大的trap之一
很多人要麼一直都有AMT, 直到今年才不會有, 所以過去一直是不能省的,如果沒注意今年就白交錢了
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4#

税都已经报了,咋办,还能再amend return吗,好像也挺麻烦的
南瓜菜园 发表于 4/13/2019 10:18:55 PM 提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-4楼提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-4楼[/url]


   還好吧,1040X  只要改 income 一個地方, 看在錢的份上。。。。 我是 700 快的差別
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5#

所以,LZ说的是,2017 hit AMT 有state refund,  2018 没hit AMT 这种情况。

天啊,多谢楼主。 我意识到我己经报了的税多报了。
我想我是疯了 发表于 4/13/2019 10:57:52 PM 提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-5楼

谢谢,你说的比我清楚, 这个shortcut只是针对这种情况
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6#


层主解释的很有道理。楼主第一篇讲的倒算法其实我就不是很理解了。因为我一个同事用楼主的办法算过了,17年州税退税完全不应该算作应纳税收入。但是不符合层主说的任何情况。所以我现在又糊涂了。哇哇哇

ashrimp 发表于 4/14/2019 2:46:39 PM 提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-6楼

作为一个完全没有税务知识的理工男, 贴主其实是不满于这个不求甚解法的, 那我又能怎样呢? 难道去看那个176 页的 IRS 525 不成?  吃饱了撑的嘛
--------强迫症分割线-------
IRS 525, Section Recoveries

Example 34.

In 2017, Jean Black filed as head of household and itemized her deductions on Schedule A (Form 1040). Her taxable income was $5,260 and her tax was $528. She claimed a child care credit of $1,200. The credit reduced her tax to zero and she had an unused tax credit of $672 ($1,200 − $528). In 2018, Jean recovered $1,000 of her itemized deductions. She reduces her 2017 itemized deductions by $1,000 and refigures that year's tax on taxable income of $6,260. However, the child care credit exceeds the refigured tax of $628. Jean's tax liability for 2017 isn't changed by reducing her deductions by the recovery. She didn't have a tax benefit from the recovered deduction and doesn't include any of the recovery in her income for 2018.


Subject to AMT.

If you were subject to the AMT in the year of the deduction, you'll have to refigure your tax for the earlier year to determine if the recovery must be included in your income. This will require a refiguring of your regular tax, as shown in Example 34 , and a refiguring of your AMT. If inclusion of the recovery doesn't change your total tax, you don't include the recovery in your income. However, if your total tax increases by any amount, you received a tax benefit from the deduction and you must include the recovery in your income up to the amount of the deduction that reduced your tax in the earlier year.



  以上让我重温GRE的魔幻时刻。。。  原来速成法其实就是正统法,  algorithm:
0.  you were subject to the AMT in the year of the deduction
    Yes
  1. you'll have to refigure your tax for the earlier year to determine if the recovery must be included in your income
      我理解这里的recovery  比如是我们想问州退税 should include or not, 比如3,000


2.  This will require a refiguring of your regular tax, as shown in Example 34 , and a refiguring of your AMT.
       Example 34 什么鬼!?  主要它提到的credit 等等scenario 爆了这么多年税从来没沾过光


3.  If inclusion of the recovery doesn't change your total tax, you don't include the recovery in your income.
      inclusion of the recovery:  把 state refund 重新加回去? 所以去改state withholding 是最好理解的, 就像例子She reduces her 2017 itemized deductions by $1,000 and refigures that year's tax on taxable income of $6,260. 【5260 + 1000】
    所以贴主 加了3000 回去, 发现 还是 85,710


4.  However, if your total tax increases by any amount, you received a tax benefit from the deduction and you must include the recovery in your income up to the amount of the deduction that reduced your tax in the earlier year.    请试着一口气读下来
    however, 如果加进 state  withholding 2000快  line 47 变了一块, 那么 you must include 3000- 2000 =1000    


以上, 贴主尽力了, 吃饭去






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7#

我前两个星期仔细研究了下, 以为懂了。 结果看完这个又不懂了。

大家讨论下, 抛砖引玉:

州退税需要作为收入加回去是因为以前的州税作为SALT是可以用来抵免联邦税的(itemnized), 若当年没有AMT, 那么这部分退税也享受了联邦税的减免, 所以要加回去; 若有AMT, 就被限制了(部分或全部都没享受到联邦税的减免),所以不需要或部分加回去。

这里不懂的是:


3.  If inclusion of the recovery doesn't change your total tax, you don't include the recovery in your income.
      inclusion of the recovery:  把 state refund 重新加回去? 所以去改state withholding 是最好理解的, 就像例子She reduces her 2017 itemized deductions by $1,000 and refigures that year's tax on taxable income of $6,260. 【5260 + 1000】
    所以贴主 加了3000 回去, 发现 还是 85,710

我认为不应该把2017州税withhold 增加来算credit (请注意上面用的是reduce deduction, 州税withhold 是一种deduction), 相反却应该是减少, 一直到新的2017 AMT变成0。

另外, 不一定是只限于exercise ISO 和自己有business 折旧的人。 只要满足2017 有AMT, 而且州税有退税的都要试试。

欢迎讨论!
biostat_04 发表于 4/14/2019 4:17:31 PM 提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-7楼

  太好了, 终于make sense,  确实是 reduce deduction, 就像 IRS525 例子中 【5260 + 1000】, state·refund 应该减去,收入增加才叫 recovery.
多谢多谢! 我把原帖改了,一直奇怪为什么人教的是line 44 增加
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8#

楼主,纯技术性讨论一下,我做了些research,发现其实大多数人根本没有generat 这个credit。一般人hit amt 是因为itemized deduction 或者personal exemption,这两项属于exclusion preference,是不会generate amt credit的,只有deferal preference 会,但是一般工薪家庭不会有后者,所以大家根本没有这么一个credit carried over,也就不能抵税了。
nasdaq 发表于 4/15/2019 3:38:26 PM 提醒一下大部分人都可能省税的今年才有的特殊情况-8楼

谢谢, 经过几位大咖达人讨论,发现包含两个不同的问题, 请看比如第126楼  
我意识到 米国话第一个问题应该叫 tax benefit, not tax credit, 第二个叫 credit. 这样这一天半work done
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